Step One: How to Become Less Shy Introvert and More Talkative to Actual People

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Okay, you ready? [00:00:08] Speaker B: I am ready. [00:00:09] Speaker A: Dear Jesus. Okay, read the paper I gave you. [00:00:15] Speaker B: Hold on. I just want to make sure my feedback isn't, like, too crazy. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Just read it, don't think about it. It you're already off to a bad start. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Dear. Maybe mom. Plus one or two other kind hearted listeners, one of which may also be my brother who runs audio. Said shy, introverted brother recently had the audacity to tell me he wanted to start following his oldest, most coolest, smartest sister's footsteps in the unpaid realm of podcasting. Said, damn. You know what? [00:01:01] Speaker A: Keep going. You already ruined the whole thing. [00:01:04] Speaker B: Said sister had it about up to here. Point of said brothers. However, in her mission to help other people, she has agreed to help him with his free unpaid podcasting gig since he helps her with this one. Step one for a said brother is to become less shy, introvert and more talkative to actual people other than his four year old son and his said genius sister. [00:01:36] Speaker A: Hey, everyone, I'm Isabella Estevis, and welcome to Everyday Above Ground, where we're talking life and the opportunity to live every single day like it's your last day. I don't even know how my brother thinks right now. He thinks he got the most revolutionary idea to host a podcast. He doesn't even really like people in general. I'm not even really sure if he likes me. And he thinks he is going to do a podcast. Why? Because I'm doing one. That's fine. I'm happy to help him. He's my brother. But if he thinks he's going to do a podcast, he's got to start talking a little more. So I thought today we could lightly focus on the idea of introverts. Believe it or not, I know people are going to eye roll me, but I swear I'm an introvert and I'm a shy introvert, too. I think it would be good to kind of think about people, would be like, well, but introversion is not about shy or being not shy. It's where you get your energy from. I do think that there are some aspects, definitely as an introvert, where I prefer more one on one or I'm more comfortable in very small settings. And as the number begins to grow, my anxiety and my need to just recoil, strengthens. I just came back from Argentina. I was out there for a week. It was an incredible country. And I think the biggest thing I took away from that trip was the difference in culture. Everywhere we went, people were talking to people, people they knew, people they didn't know. And it just blew my mind. I remember being at dinner with my boss one night and realizing at some point, as part of an American culture, we're sitting there like Garfield, eating all the lasagna as fast as we can, and we're like, Where's the waitress? Why isn't this lady coming around? Why is she taking so long? And then I realized I saw people coming in. I don't think I saw anyone leave. It was like a mini hotel California. I'm like, what is going on here? How come no one is leaving? And I realized that's because they sit and they talk and they talk and they talk for hours. Dinner isn't just a high buy. We eat a meal and then we're done. Dinner is a whole entire conversation. And so I think it was just a really good reminder. We get so lost in the shuffle of our day to day and everyone's so busy. Businesses these days are 24 hours, right? It's not like something shut down and you have time to breathe and relax. Most businesses at this point are global and they're online, which means they're always running. It's 24 hours. We're a bunch of 24 hours people just running around trying to keep our head above water, and we lose the idea of connection, especially if we're introverted. And so again today, I thought, how could I help my brother kind of begin to come out of his shell? What are the ways that I started to come out of my shell? And so I thought I'd talk a little bit about that with you today. So I feel like I'm going to regret this, but I have asked my brother yet again to come up with a set of questions. He's already disappointed me in the opener that I gave him that he laughed and then his computer ran through also. But I've only got one sound guy, and he's an unpaid sound guy, and he's also my question guy who spent about 20 minutes checking his own audio for someone who didn't even want to talk when he first got here. This is the kind of growth that we have on this show. So I'm going to go ahead and let my brother pull up his questions, and I think we're just going to dive right in and see what he's come up with this week. And I'm already my heart's palpitating. Go ahead. Said, brother, you're never going to make it. You're never going to make it in the entertaining industry. I swear. You've got no shot, as they would say in the WWE, you've got no chance in hell. Go ahead. [00:06:29] Speaker B: Do you think Cassio okay. Could you share a personal story of a time when your shyness or introversion presented a challenge and how you overcame it? [00:06:51] Speaker A: A time that's actually a really good question. Good job. All right. You might have plus 1% chance in most recent time, I would say when I had the idea to do this podcast, I went to school for broadcast journalism. And I think not a lot of people realize that because I work with numbers all day long for a corporate consulting firm. But there was always this drive in me to want to learn about people and to talk to people and tell them about the idea of change and just living every single day to the maximum. And it was like, how am I going to do that, though? If I struggle sometimes to talk to people and I get nervous, particularly in the corporate world, there is a lot of hierarchy. And so it's like, how can you even talk to people who are smarter or more successful than you? And I almost psyched myself out about just finally giving the podcast a try. I always had dreams that I wanted to be the next Oprah Winfrey. I would say that I was like the Hispanic Oprah, but I never got out there to interview people because I was afraid to fail. And when it came to the podcast, everything just happened to fall into line when I decided that I wanted to do it, and I knew that I wanted to do it, and I knew that I wanted to interview people, and I'm like, how am I even going to find people? And fast forward to a day I was at the gym and I just casually mentioned to the front office girl that, hey, I'm going to do this podcast and I have these ideas. And she's like, oh, my gosh, I love the idea of that. That sounds so cool. What would you talk about? And I'm like, I don't know. What kind of stuff would you like to hear about? And she's like, what about situation shifts? And I'm like, okay, what about situation shifts? She's like, yeah, I feel like I could talk a lot about it and I think it would be really cool if you did that. And something in me was just like, ask her if she wants to be on the podcast. I've never even recorded one episode. I don't even think I had two microphones, but I just had something in me that was like the worst that she's going to do is tell me, no, she's not interested. And then I'll just keep figuring it out. But fortunately, she said yes, and she was, like, super excited about it, and her excitement built an excitement within me. And so I just thought about, okay, I'm going to plan and I'm just going to go out there and do it, and I'm not going to worry about whether it's perfect or how everything looks. If I think that I'm ever going to give this a real shot, then I've got to get over those fears. And so I would say, like, she came, we filmed, I had a blast, and I just loved it. I loved being able to sit there and just have conversation with people and share that conversation with others, share those stories that might resonate and help someone else, because I think that's my ultimate goal as it relates to a podcast, nothing else. It's not money or like I said, it's a free thing. It's just to follow through on the passion. So I would say that was a most recent time where I just decided I'm going to push through. If it's not perfect, it's fine. It's the first one. If no one listens, it's fine. I still just need to take the action. [00:10:53] Speaker B: Next question, sir, what are some practical strategies someone can use to build confidence and become more comfortable in social situations? [00:11:02] Speaker A: There's two books that come to mind. The first one is a bit of are you shaking your head on the idea of reading a book? I was going to tell you about an audiobook okay. I was just going to say the first one is very difficult to read if you just try to sit there and muscle through. But the idea is that you get it on audiobook, and it's called how to Win Friends and Influence People. And what I learned in that book, because I can see my brother's never going to pick it up and read it or listen to it, is what you want to do, essentially, like, if you want to work on your people skills. And funny enough, I picked this up to be it's going to sound so skeevy, but to be better at dating is the reason I picked the book up. I'm like, I feel like maybe I'm not very interesting. Maybe I initially come off as shallow to people. And so I read this book and it's a phenomenal book. It talks mostly about the idea and the principle. If you want to win friends and influence people, perhaps the easiest and best way to do that is let them talk about them is less about you talking and more about you actively listening and using that as an opportunity to follow up with killer questions, thoughts or ideas to something they are already talking about. It's like the idea of sales. My favorite type of salespeople are the ones who don't appear to be selling anything at all. And they're focused on the idea of building a relationship, building a connection, because ultimately, at the end of the day, anybody can talk. You got to get people to listen. You got to be able to build that relationship and that connection to make yourself memorable. So the other book that I think does a fantastic job on building on that is called Many Speak, Few Connect, and that's by John C. Maxwell. That's a much easier read. I encourage you, brother, to read the book. [00:13:26] Speaker B: It wasn't at the suggestion of reading. You ruined question six, but it can be edited. [00:13:34] Speaker A: All right, well, whatever. Come up with a new question. But you asked me what to do. [00:13:40] Speaker B: Casio Quatch question. [00:13:42] Speaker A: If that question comes up again, I will fire you and I will not share my tips with you. That's what I'm going to do. But anyway, back to this book. The important thing about this book is just that everybody talks. Few people take the time to actually connect. And if you want to be a person who connects. Stop talking to people from a place of a taker. What that means is when you talk and present from the place of a taker, let's say that you're coming from a needy place. Then the audience or the recipient of that feels compelled to acknowledge you and feed into your neediness and ensure that you're noticed. If you come from an egotistical place and you're braggadocious and you want everyone to think that you're the best thing since sliced bread, then you're doing that. You want your audience to lift you up. There's purpose behind the reason that you speak that way, when you come from the place of a taker, you want recognition. You want approval and acceptance. I was a very insecure person when I spoke at work because I work with a lot of very smart people. And so anytime I did have something to say, it was almost like I was looking for their praise and approval and agreement that they thought what I said was smart. And what I learned was in particular through this book, when you come from the place of a giver, meaning, you come leading with heart, with empathy, with sympathy, with appreciation. All the receiver has to do is receive. And then it's like a gift. There's no action for them to do and it allows there to begin to be a foundation to build upon. So I would just say build upon that. Like start there. Think about when you're talking to people rather than making it about you. Think about things that you can turn around and make it about others. Asking open ended questions, allowing them to share their thoughts and idea, not cutting them off, actively listening. When you do these things, when you remember tiny details that they tell you because you're active listening, these are the types of things that can begin to build and strengthen your communication skills and also your relationships. [00:16:39] Speaker B: How can introverts effectively manage social anxiety and reduce the fear of judgment from others? [00:16:47] Speaker A: You have to get yourself out there. You're going to have to put yourself out there. It's not going to be comfortable. One of the things that I started to do, because you can read all the books, you can listen to all the podcasts, you can watch all the Instagram videos or YouTube videos. But at the end of the day, if you don't actually get out there and practice and put action behind it, it's not going to change. So when I realized, okay, but I need to start getting better at talking to people, I did a few things. Number one, I accepted that not everyone is going to want to talk to me if I approach someone and they're just not interested in speaking to me. That's their problem, not mine. I shouldn't take it personal. And I think that's what happens a lot of time. People take stuff like that personal and then they just let it marinate in their soul. So what I did was literally go to the grocery store and just strike up conversations with the intent that to just have a little bit of a point in time conversation if they bite and the conversation goes, fantastic. If it doesn't, that's okay too, because that gets you comfortable with the idea of rejection, if you will. Which I think for me was a big fear when I went to speak to people. I fear the idea of rejection or being unseen or unheard. And so I would literally go to the grocery store on my regular runs and I'd make a comment in the fruit section. I remember one time I was like freaking $10 for cut up mango. And that's all I said to this one lady next to me. Next thing I know, we had a five minute conversation about how expensive fruit is and how ridiculous it is that we'll pay it just because it's cut up for convenience. And then it was like, okay. And then you just kind of end that conversation naturally and you just keep going. I did it several times throughout my grocery store runs. Other times I would comment if someone had a killer pair of shoes on. Man, those are killer shoes. Those are really nice. One time there was a jam playing, a radio song playing in the store and I made a comment about it to someone. I think that person really didn't pay attention to what I had to say, but at the end of the day, it was just getting comfortable with the idea of being uncomfortable and accepting. Some people just weren't going to want to talk. But more often than not, people really let their guards down when you just start talking to them. And I think that's another thing too that I learned, especially with the idea of hierarchy at work. One of the other things that I started practicing was rather than walking up to someone and saying, hi, my name is Isabel. I read in some book or I watched a video that said there's a psychology trick behind that where when you go and approach someone and you introduce yourself, you almost give them the implication that they're higher in the rank than you are. And so what they suggested was rather than walk up to someone and extend your hand and say, hi, I'm so and so, and then begin a conversation was to just pick up on something and just start talking as if you already know them, and then it catches them off guard. And so I tried this tactic at a work event, and usually at work events, networking or any type of after work social events, unless I go with other people, I would typically avoid. I really pushed myself to be there and see if I could just start conversation on my own. And so there was this one managing director there who's very high up in the organization. And I just started talking to her about something I knew in the line of business that she was in. And I was like, what do you think about this? And she just started talking back to me, and then I was like, with that question, I pulled a thread from another one, and the next thing I know, we're in a conversation. And then the magic happened. She asked me my name. So now instead of me going out and introducing myself, she said, what was your name again? I don't think I got your name. And I was like, oh, I'm Isabel Estebus. I do X, Y, and Z. And she's like, oh, that's fantastic. Why don't you grab time on my calendar? Let's talk more. That tactic, particularly in the work environment, has helped me exponentially. And it's just the idea of just walking up, casual conversation, getting people to let that guard down and open up, and before you know it, they want to know who you are because you just like, come. Most people don't do that. And so it's kind of like this little bit of a hack that I've been using, and I think it pays off. So it's an awful lot of different things that I've been doing little by little that have began to build the confidence to now walk up, not be afraid to hear the word no or someone to walk away or not be interested in what I have to say. That's okay, because most people will. And that's something that took time for me to learn. [00:22:24] Speaker B: I'll have you know, I take my time making these questions, and you decide you're going to answer them ahead of time, and I'm tired of it. [00:22:35] Speaker A: You got five minutes. When you walk in the door, I review stuff for hours and days to come. I think about things way down the line. I gave you, like, five minutes to look up those questions. There's no way that you spent that much time, a lot of time. Next question. [00:22:55] Speaker B: Are there any specific communication techniques or tips that have helped you become more outgoing while staying true to yourself? You just answered that. [00:23:05] Speaker A: Isn't that what I just said? Yes. Okay, well, I will tell you this to your point. When you are fake, people can feel it, they can see it. If there's one other thing that I could say, like in terms of pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone, don't do so at the risk of not being true to yourself. I think that's another big thing too. Sometimes we go looking for the conversation in the wrong places, and we just don't fit in, if you will, and that's okay. I've had a friend that says, I try to fit in with these people, but it's like they don't want to hear what I have to say or you don't even really know if I like the things that they're talking about. If you're in a circle where you don't like the things that people are talking about. Get out of that circle. Find a circle where they do appreciate what you're talking about. Don't stay where you have no interest and where you're finding it difficult to make a connection. Don't force a connection. If you will be okay with the fact that you're not going to be friends and connect with everyone, and that's okay. But at least give yourself the grace to explore and be open to the idea of meeting people but understanding you're not going to connect with everyone. [00:24:45] Speaker B: This is why I don't talk to people grocery stores. [00:24:48] Speaker A: What role wait, why don't you talk to people at grocery stores? Dig into that a little more. Why wouldn't you talk to someone at a grocery store? [00:24:54] Speaker B: I ain't got time for grocery store conversations. [00:24:57] Speaker A: Why not? It's just conversation. It's building your conversation skills have work to do that it's not about you're not trying to sit there and have a 35 minutes conversation with someone. It's just to get in the habit of conversating. [00:25:15] Speaker B: When I go to the store, I need to focus on what I'm doing to get in and out. [00:25:19] Speaker A: Do you want to get better at communication? [00:25:22] Speaker B: I have communication skills at work. [00:25:23] Speaker A: Do you? [00:25:24] Speaker B: I do. [00:25:25] Speaker A: Do you? Give me five coworkers. I can call right now and I'm going to ask them. [00:25:32] Speaker B: Okay. [00:25:34] Speaker A: Not right now. Five minute. Right now. I will not ask them. Okay. [00:25:38] Speaker B: Five minutes later. [00:25:39] Speaker A: Five minute later. [00:25:42] Speaker B: What role does self acceptance play in the process of overcoming shyness and embracing an introversion? [00:25:50] Speaker A: I think introversion is okay, and I think people get too wrapped up in the idea of labels of being an introvert. Extrovert ambivert omnivert I think is one of them as well. People get too wrapped up in being and just rather than doing that, like just focusing on what they actually want to be, it's okay if you get I think that's the other thing, too that that book makes a good point about is that when you're really connecting with people, connection takes energy. It takes energy, a lot of energy to genuinely connect with people. So that's the other thing too I would like introverted people to be reminded of. And that's okay as long as you're giving the energy to the right people. I think that one of the things that I like to do is almost plan. If I know that I've got a family event, I'm super excited to see my family. But in order to give them the genuine amount of energy and attention that I would like to give them, I have to mentally prepare that for that at least a week in advance. And then I also have to know that on the back end, the minute they leave or the minute I leave the party, I'm going to need some time to decompress. I'm going to need some time to go sit in my room. If I could have DoorDash deliver it all the way to my bedroom, I would pay them an extra $5. DoorDash, I've given you an idea, you're welcome. But up until this point, I still have to walk to the door. But it's like I need that time to just be alone and recharge. And it's accepting that that is how you recharge and knowing that and planning for that and anticipating for that as much as you possibly can. And again, I think just to really reinforce the fact that give your energy to the right people, places and things and you'll find it doesn't feel so bad when you go to use it because it's energy well spent. [00:28:27] Speaker B: Can you recommend any books, resources or tools that have been particularly helpful on your journey to become a more competent introvert? [00:28:38] Speaker A: I given you two books earlier that you're probably not going to read. I hope other people I didn't scrap the question read, but other than that, I think there's this great guy online who's called Ask Vin and he's a masterful magician speaker and why it's kind of this out of the box suggestion is it's more along the lines of communication and presentation. But I think ultimately, at the end of the day, what I think he's so masterful is using his voice as an instrument to connect with others. And so I would say that he's been a very unique resource for me to learn from, to learn about the idea of tonality and volume and speed and course correcting the way that I speak. Because even very early on in this podcast, it was taking me hours to edit because every other word out of my mouth was like and I didn't realize how bad it was until I began editing these videos. And so watching his videos taught me about how to use my voice as an instrument to connect with others. I would say, as I say, that there's different things that you can do. You can vary your speech that makes what you're saying interesting. Less about the message and more about the delivery and how people receive that. So he's one great resource, another great resource. Again, I picked on this resource because I was as silly as it sounds like I wanted to be better in the dating pool, in the dating life. And his name is Matthew Hussey and a lot of what he talks about is this idea of confidence and these ins and outs of dating. But I really think it's his talk about being an interesting person and what that means. I think so many times people think that they're not interesting because maybe they think their life is boring and that it's very repetitive. And what is there to really talk about? He presented this idea in one of his materials that he had about the most interesting person in the world type dinner and what it was about this person at these dinner parties that he hosted that made this one person so successful. And a lot of that came down to this person's ability to just kind of have these stories at the ready. And so that's something else that I spent a lot of time practicing, not just in the dating piece, but overall in general in life was having more of these stories in the barrel, if you will. And it was a little challenging for me because I don't really watch television or movies, but what I found was I could also use that to my advantage. So if people started talking about the latest show or the latest movie they've seen, I would say, oh, that's interesting, tell me more about it because actually I don't watch television. And it's like you find these little threads within the conversation that you can pull, but if you don't have references in your own head to kind of pull from, it gets a little hard. So I work on always trying to have like three to four stories, as I like to say, in the barrel. And easy, super easy. Everybody loves to talk travel. I've been talking travel nonstop this year because I was in Argentina just a few weeks ago. I was in was in, I went on a cruise to Puerto Rico, st. Martin and the Dominican Republic, and before that I went to London and Paris. I've never traveled this much in my life, like outside of the country. So I've had a really great traveling year. But those all build stories. You can talk places that you've been, that you haven't been. Travel is always a great one. Talk about where you want to go. Maybe someone has been where you want to go. That's a thread to pull. You can ask all sorts of questions. Food, I think that will be the topic of my brother's future podcast, which I hope everyone will watch. He is going to be talking about food and people love to talk about food. Different restaurants, favorite pizza, favorite hot dogs. Can you tell I'm from Chicago? These are all Chicago foods. But you can just find a topic and just kind of have these stories in the barrel so that when people say, hey, what have you been up to? The last answer you want to give is nothing. Tell them something, even if it's, oh man, I just finished folding these socks. And let me tell you, when the one sock doesn't match with the other, it kills me. But man, when I find that match, wait, it's like I won the lotto. Carry on a conversation about anything, try to make it interesting. Ideally it's not folding, SOTs I'm sure you do more than that in your life, but find those threads that might be interesting to others if you don't get out of the house quite much yet. Talk about a recent article. You read a recent book, a TV show, if you. Do watch TV. These are all kind of like easy things. Sports. There's something that you do or that you know about that you can talk about and make it interesting. And if you kind of keep these stories in the barrel, it makes it even easier when the opportunity to conversate comes up. [00:34:55] Speaker B: I'd just like to note that's also great advice for interviews, having four or five stories for an interview before you go into one. [00:35:05] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that's a good thing for. [00:35:07] Speaker B: Interviews as well, especially for introverts who may not be able to think, okay. [00:35:11] Speaker A: Is this your episode or mine? [00:35:15] Speaker B: You gave me the money. [00:35:16] Speaker A: Yours is food. [00:35:19] Speaker B: Are there any misconceptions about introversion or shyness that you would like to debunk? [00:35:26] Speaker A: I'm not a doctor. I have this theory, though I'm kind of glad you asked this question. I have this theory based on now reading this book. Absolutely not a doctor, not a psychologist. Don't have a degree in that. But what I think is interesting is that extroverts get their energy from being in those large social crowds. And I am willing to argue and talk this out and debate in the future about the fact that if it takes energy to truly give and connect with someone in conversation, that extroverts might not be that good at that. They're good at making more shallow, quick, fast connections with people. But I wonder, if they were truly giving in a conversation, wouldn't they also lose their energy? And so if I think about the people that I know that I would argue are more extroverted, I also think that their conversation is not nearly as deep as someone with more introverted tendencies. So I think introversion kind of gets a bad rap. But when you think about conversation from a deep perspective, I have a feeling most of the time when someone has that quality, they're going to be an introvert. But that's like a conspiracy theory. I don't really know if that's true. I don't have a degree. [00:37:20] Speaker B: I don't think that qualifies as conspiracy theory or just my opinion. [00:37:25] Speaker A: You have a microphone for like 1.2 days, not even, okay. And now all of a sudden you're the expert. [00:37:32] Speaker B: How can introverts leverage their unique qualities to excel in personal and professional settings? [00:37:39] Speaker A: I think by not being afraid to let that deep introspective side of them show more. I think oftentimes introverts or shy people have these thoughts, ideas and even stories. And there's something in them, particularly like with the shy people, that makes them feel that whatever they have to say really isn't worthy of being said. If they can be open about the idea of not being quiet and speaking up, pushing themselves to speak up just a little more if they want to, then I think people would get to see another side of them that maybe others, many people don't get to see. I think some of the most fascinating people in this world are sitting in an Ohio cornfield reading book upon book upon book, but not sharing that with anyone. And so I think even if you look at it from the perspective of like you have all these great and wonderful things, don't be afraid to go out there and share it with others because that's how other people are going to learn. [00:39:01] Speaker B: I would like to just add personally that I think while it's not all, I think there's a vast amount of introverts that because they're not talking, they're listening and observing more than others. And I think that their unique perspective can sometimes be valuable if they were to speak on it. They just normally wouldn't. [00:39:29] Speaker A: Isn't that what I just said? [00:39:31] Speaker B: Yeah, but I think the unique ability. [00:39:32] Speaker A: You said it better be. [00:39:35] Speaker B: The concept. [00:39:36] Speaker A: Of observing and I'm teasing you understanding. I love the idea of observation because I think that's huge for introverts and that's something that I do bigly is I'm super observant and I think large in part, especially when I do a solo episode. That's what it is. It's me attempting to share my observations, which often are introspective of myself, of just how I see myself and to be self aware, but also what I see in others. I love the idea of observation, but don't be afraid for the observer to become the observed because I think that there's a lot of value in that. I mean, even you, I didn't even know you knew how to do all sorts of audio stuff that just happened to come randomly out in conversation, but share things like that with people. Don't be afraid to talk about yourself and the things that you know. [00:40:58] Speaker B: I told you I like computers. [00:41:00] Speaker A: Yeah, but computers is one thing I'm talking about, like audio, like even knowing about the plug names. [00:41:06] Speaker B: It's a behind the scenes job. [00:41:09] Speaker A: Okay, but how are people going to even know that you're qualified for the behind the scenes job if you don't even talk about it? Get to the grocery store. Get to conversating. [00:41:21] Speaker B: If I go to the grocery store, one person asks me if I'm an audio engineer. I would love to hear that. [00:41:26] Speaker A: I hope it happens one day. [00:41:28] Speaker B: Just so you can eat and there's no trickery. You can't go to the store while. [00:41:33] Speaker A: I'm at the store. I'm going to make someone plant someone to do it. But yeah, no, I think that the idea of the observer becoming the observed is something that is a really cool thing to see when it happens. [00:41:53] Speaker B: What advice do you have for listeners who are looking to take their first steps towards becoming more socially confident introverts or even just step away from the introverts and just what? They're just shy and just maybe not decided to what there are just be more socially confident. [00:42:15] Speaker A: Confidence comes after action, not before. So as I said earlier, you can sit and read all the books and you can watch all the videos and you can sit there and just consume all this information. But until you get out there and fall a couple of times, think about in the simplest form, you're probably not going to remember, but at some point you had to learn how to crawl. And at some point crawling is one thing. You had to learn how to walk, which means you had to have the courage as a baby to just get up and try something that was out of your comfort zone and you had to push through and you had to fall and you had to get back up and you had to fall again. And you found that if you moved your feet a little faster, maybe you'd fall. So then you slow down, you find your pace, you find your balance, and then before you know it, you're walking. And then the next thing you know, you're running. I think if you approach it like that, except you're going to fall. Which is why I suggest if you want to start out light, it doesn't have to be at the grocery store. I just have little to no contact all day working from home other than the people that I already know and work with. Start small, go to the park, go to maybe not the park. I don't know if you're older, maybe don't go to the park. Go somewhere where there's other adults and just try to strike up conversation and be okay with the fact if someone doesn't want to talk to you. Because I think that's what happens is most people, even in the dating world, are just fearing rejection. But the thing is, the more you hear no, surprisingly, the easier it becomes to hear. I would say if you're really serious about pushing your confidence forward, get out there. Don't be afraid to hear no and do it for you. Because if you do it for anyone else in mine, it's not going to work. I also, in terms of confidence, began to write little notes to myself because here's a little known fact. I had horrific self esteem, terrific self esteem issues. I'm not even talking like years ago. I'm talking like months ago. And what helped pull me out of that was learning that I'm enough as is. I was enough at one. I was enough at five. I was enough at 20. I was enough 40 pounds overweight. I was enough at the current weight that I'm at now. I've always been enough. But I didn't always believe that. And so in order to begin to change that and walk with the level of confidence that I have now, I had to dig deep, get to the root of what I felt like was causing the breaking confidence, realized that those things that happened in the past were not true. And then I wrote little reinforcing notes to myself. And you think I'm joking. I have a note on my mirror. I had one hanging in the closet, kind of in my key places that I'm at throughout the day. And even on my phone, I changed my folders to say beautiful, gorgeous, badass, whatever my different folders say. So that it's like this idea of positive reinforcement even when you're not looking and necessarily thinking about it. And I'd say positive things to myself in the mirror rather than speaking down to myself and beating myself up. And at first I was like, this is dumb. I don't even really believe myself. But then at some point, I did believe myself. I'm like, you know what? I am smart, I am pretty, I am talented, I am these different things. And I was never not. I just wasn't confident about them. And so it's like until I began to take those little steps to move towards confidence, all the books in the world and all the things that I saw and read weren't going to help me. So confidence comes after action. [00:47:00] Speaker B: And I confirmed you have it by your desk as well, which is key for working environment. [00:47:07] Speaker A: All of my notes. Okay, I'm also posted Obsessed, but I do have a lot of notes by my desk that are just reminders because we can't wait. I think the other thing is too, as it relates to confidence and even like the neediness and introversion and things like that, I think most people just want to be seen, myself included, seen and heard. And rather than waiting for someone or hoping or begging for someone to see and hear me, it's important for me to understand that I see and hear myself. That's most important. If anyone else happens to see and hear me, fantastic. But even with the idea of this podcast, I said to myself, even if no one else watches or listens, I am, I'm going to watch and listen. And that's all that matters to me. [00:48:07] Speaker B: Just to take a step back. Because as you mentioned in your example for the child growing up, it reminded me of this clip I saw of Neil degrasse Tyson talking, and I forgot who he was talking to. But he mentions that in the early stages of a kid developing those crucial years in that toddler, time is so crucial of what they absorb and what they impact and what affects their life, that when you're thinking of creativity and observing and just taking in the world. Kids are performing experiments every moment, touching things or getting to things and doing something. And when you stop them and you're worried that they're walking towards the table, that they might spill something and you stop them, like, no, you're squashing that creativity or that experiment that they're going to run. So then they just never know. And then they start to not do these experiments as often. So it's like crushing that trade of spirit. So in the example, he said he would just let the kids spill anything could be cleaned up. He would just let the kid spill whatever and see what's going to happen. How do you think that is? Do you think that's true or you think, how is that relevant to the same thing? If they're not allowed to be creative, not allowed to experiment with these different things, and they're kind of being more and more closed off. And I think that with people, too. Are you just not talking to people or you're not engaging with people, or they're not having that experience in this young staged area of life? How does that affect them in the long term? [00:50:10] Speaker A: Well, I'll say that I love Neil degrasse Tyson to begin with, but what I love is something that I haven't really talked about yet, which I think was another huge piece for me in terms of beginning to break out of my shell, which is at some point we're told, okay, that's enough being a kid. It's time to grow up. And you got to take everything serious, and you got to do everything right, and you got to go to school, and you got to go do this, and you got to have the husband and the kid and this and that and that, and we get very serious about life. One of the things that I've done over these past eight months or so is go back to the mindset of a child. And what I mean by that is literally one day I decided, you know what? I'm going to practice handstands now, because I always want to do a handstand. When I was a child, what better time than now? And when I started to do these things, I talk to plants. Now I go for walks without my phone. If there is a bounce house, I'm getting in there. I went to the trampoline park over the weekend. You best believe I got my pass to take my nephew through the playland. There's nothing like going back and acting and being like a kid and having that freedom. And I think he's absolutely right. The level of creativity and fearlessness and willingness to try and do things again. Think about the idea of walking. I don't know what walking is. Talking. We're literally born without any of those capabilities, and we figure them out at the child age. The idea of talking, think about kids who can fluently speak two languages. That's insane. There's adults that can't speak two languages. But I think it large in part is because it's like, as a child, you lead with this fearlessness, and you have this just incredible amount of creativity. And what I've found for me is anytime I can tap into that childlike energy, my creativity, my thoughts, everything is just like, off the charts and limitless in terms of what I think or believe I can do. So I'm like 100% in agreement with that. I do think if we could be more in a childlike state. Not in terms of irresponsibility and things like that, but just in general, you'll find that it's almost like it opens up a whole new portal of potential impossibility. [00:53:18] Speaker B: You've mentioned a lot that your journey has been within this last eight months plus time, not necessarily asking the specific reason, but was there something more or less that inspired you to make the change? [00:53:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I went through a really tough breakup, and I started to go to therapy about it. And funny enough that I went to therapy initially to try to work to fix that other individual, if you will, or not necessarily fix a person, but see what I could do to be a better partner to that person. And what I realized through therapy was that person didn't need fixing. I did. If I think I'm going to be better for anyone in this world, then I've got to fix myself and I got to recognize the faults in me and the things and the choices that I make that are not wise. And once I started along that path, it just opened up a whole other realm. To the point of what you were saying earlier about Neil degrasse Tyson. A lot of what I did in terms of healing from that breakup was related to inner child know begin to really dig real deep on where these insecurities and self worth, low self esteem. Where did these things really come from and where did they really start and come to find virtually every issue that we have as an adult is us not having dealt with the things that we were when we were the things that happened when we were children. And so that's how I started the journey, ironically started out the journey to try to help someone else and ended up helping the person who needed the most help in the process, which is myself, I think. There's this great quote that someone says, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And recently I've been sitting with that quite a bit because I think at this point in my life, I am both now the student and the teacher, appearing for myself and learning from myself in incredible ways. And I think exponentially faster than people who spend years upon years in therapy. I've literally just been working on myself these past eight months. But the amount of growth I've had, the amount of opportunity, the amount of positivity, the amount of happiness and joy that I genuinely feel today was worth every ounce of this little bit of an eight month journey. When you look at the grand scheme that I'm going to be 42 years old and it only took me 30 something years to finally step up and do something and change and work towards change, and I've had a great amount of growth and change in the past eight months. [00:56:28] Speaker B: Speaking of teachers that become students, I feel like you'll be biased, but I will allow you to rank these teachers already escaping on the name of the character in mighty ducks, but the Emilio Estevis character coach Bombay. Coach Bombay. [00:56:49] Speaker A: Splinter, are you serious with this question? Right? [00:56:51] Speaker B: Splinter or Mr. Miyagi? Mind you, I know where your bias. [00:56:57] Speaker A: Lies, but he also miyagi. [00:57:00] Speaker B: He did one child, one mr. Miyagi. Yeah. [00:57:04] Speaker A: What? [00:57:06] Speaker B: You're not counting Hillary swing incredibly well. That's the second one. [00:57:10] Speaker A: Mr. Miyagi. Splinter. Mighty ducks. [00:57:14] Speaker B: It's Coach Bombay. [00:57:15] Speaker A: Coach Bombay. Next question. [00:57:19] Speaker B: I don't have any more questions. No more questions for you. [00:57:24] Speaker A: All right. Well, then I guess that concludes today's episode. Thank you, mom. I don't even think mom listens, to be honest. [00:57:37] Speaker B: I'm 100% sure she doesn't. If I ever get her a car, though, I'll make her listen to this. [00:57:41] Speaker A: One, and then she'll be like, oh, do I got to change it? All right, well, someone out there listens, even if it's just me. So thank you, self. And also my brother, who does sound I'm pretty sure he listens as well. [00:57:53] Speaker B: I listen on the way to work. [00:57:55] Speaker A: All right. Thank you to ourselves for being the best listeners. And I will just say, if you want to get good at something in this world, regardless, if you identify as an introvert, extrovert, whatever it is that you think you are, one of the best things you can do is not just learn how to communicate, but how to connect with people. When you're able to connect with people, you can strengthen relationships at home, at work, at the grocery store, at anywhere, and have lasting impact. So I highly encourage you, if you're only going to work on one skill in life, let this one be the one that you work on forever. Until next time, remember, every day above ground is a great day. [00:58:58] Speaker B: Do not note that. I think my questions were better. [00:59:05] Speaker A: Marginally better. Your questions were marginally better. However, obviously, it's very clear you don't read books. And you also can't read things that I wrote on an ed. I am talking about the note that I gave you to read ahead of time. Okay, how about the note that I gave you to read ahead of time? You laughed during the whole that was. [00:59:26] Speaker B: Going to crack me up. [00:59:28] Speaker A: It was a serious note. What is funny about my level of genius? There's nothing funny about it. I gave you a task guilt. We're going to have to figure out new things. I now know you can't barely read. Now I feel bad. My next episode should be about learning how to illiteracy. Illiteracy. That will be the next episode.